The
Johnny Depp Zone
Interview
Archive
2 0 0 8
Short
Back and Homicides
By
Martyn Palmer
Empire Magazine
January 2008
Revenge!
Passion! Slaughter! Showtunes? Attend the tale of Sweeney Todd, or how
musical-hating Tim Burton and virgin singer Johnny Depp took on
Broadway’s most
acclaimed songfest and won. “On paper, it’s like
the worst
idea of all time . .
.”
September
2007—Venice. It’s the morning after the night
before, and
Tim and Johnny are
taking it easy. Some 15 hours ago, Venice rolled out the red carpet and
asked
Johnny (as in Depp) to present a Lifetime Achievement Award to Tim (as
in
Burton) at the city’s film festival. 
And
really, who else would do? As double
acts go, this one is up there with Laurel and Hardy.
“It
was kind of cool,” says Burton, clearly delighted by the
honor.
“And what’s
nice is that they’ve given it to me while I’m still
young
enough to enjoy it.
Johnny didn’t have to push me out in a wheelchair . .
.”
Depp
chips in: “Yeah, with drool dribbling down your
chin!”
Both
are giggling joyously by now and Burton mimics a very old
person’s doddery
voice: “I’d like to thank you for this award . .
.”
Then it’s back over to
Depp, who adopts a similarly creaky voice: “Yeah, and by the
way,
where am I?”
Where
we are right now is in the otherwise deserted bar of a hotel so plush
it’s
plonked in the middle of its own island and you have to hire a boat to
get to
it. Earlier, your Empire scribe was one of a lucky few to be given a
sneak
seven-minute preview of Sweeney Todd: The
Demon Barber of Fleet Street, the sixth Burton-Depp
collaboration
which
stars Depp in the title role and Burton’s partner, Helena
Bonham
Carter, as
pie-maker Mrs. Lovett. Without wishing to go too overboard on what is
essentially a glorified extended trailer, it’s looking good.
Very
good. And
very dark, too.
Given
the skew-wiff Gothica of their previous collaborations—Edward
Scissorhands, Ed Wood,
Sleepy Hollow, Charlie
and the Chocolate
Factory and Corpse Bride—there
is no
surprise they are couching this as a
classic horror story with songs rather than a happy-clappy,
let’s-do-the-show-in-the-barn-right-here singalong, with Depp
more in the
ballpark of Lon Chaney, Boris Karloff and Peter Lorre than Fred Astaire
or Gene
Kelly.
For
Burton, the notion of turning Stephen Sondheim’s
much-adored
1979 musical into cinema first surfaced some ten years ago and played
squarely
against his tastes.
“I’m
not a huge musical fan, but I did like this one because I liked the
horror
movie/musical aspect, the story and drama and emotion of it. I just
loved it,”
says Burton. 
“But
then it just went away. I always think there’s a weird
subconscious reason for everything.”
So
did Burton originally have Depp in the frame for the bloodthirsty
barber?
“Well,
I looked at some of the drawings I did for it back then and I suddenly
realized
Sweeney looked just like Johnny and I thought,
‘Wow!’”
Fast-forward
a few years and Sweeney was back on the table again, so Burton sent
Depp a CD
of the Broadway musical, just to see what he made of it. The crunch
was, of
course, could Johnny sing? It was exactly the question Depp asked
himself . . .
BURTON:
I sent him the CD, and you know what’s weird about this is
that
they [the studios] are afraid of
musicals
anyway, but an R-rated musical with blood that’s not based on
pop
songs, it’s
like “Fuck!”
DEPP:
It’s like a joke on the studios . . .
BURTON:
It’s kind of like Springtime for
Hitler,
but for real . . .
DEPP:
It’s like Ed Wood saying, “Hey, I’ve got
a great
idea!”
BURTON:
Yeah, it’s romantic! [laughs]
And
then Johnny was like, “Great, great, great!” And
everybody
was, “Yeah, great!”
And then it was like, “Um, can he sing?” Nobody
knew. I
didn’t know. So that’s
the joke of the whole thing. In a way that’s the surreal
nature
of Hollywood,
so you have to love it for that because on paper, it’s like
the
worst idea of
all time!
DEPP:
It sounds fantastic! But can he sing? I was trying to figure that out
myself. I
mean, I knew I wasn’t tone-deaf because I play music, guitar
and
all, but I
didn’t know if I was actually going to be able to sing. I
wasn’t sure. So I
said to Tim, “Let me investigate and I’ll send you
something and see how you
feel. And then we can talk about it.” So I went into a
friend’s studio and
recorded “My Friends”—a song from the
show—and I sent him
that and he liked it.
BURTON:
It was great. It sounds like Johnny . . . but singing!
Some
directors might have been intimidated by the prospect of working
with a
leading man
who’d never sung professionally before. Not Burton. He
positively
embraced it.
And
when it came to casting his adaptation, he chose actors over singers
every
time—Alan Rickman as Judge Turpin, Timothy Spall as Beadle
Bamford, Sacha Baron
Cohen as Signor Adolfo Pirelli and Bonham Carter (who had to audition
for the
part like everyone else) as Mrs. Lovett.
BURTON:
I haven’t got a huge knowledge of musicals, but I do know
that
this is a very
hard musical. And you know, that’s what I love about
it—that and the fact that
Johnny and everybody in it isn’t a singer . . .
DEPP:
[laughing] It’s going to
be great!
BURTON:
I think it brings an interesting tone to it. I’ve seen
musicals
where people
aren’t singers and they are terrible. But everybody in this
was
great, I was
very impressed . . .
DEPP:
Helena was unbelievable; Sacha [Baron
Cohen] was great. He can sing.
BURTON:
And the great thing is, you hear a certain pop band, the Spice Girls or
whatever, and they can be anybody, but these are all actors and their
characters and voices come through. I don’t know, but
it’s
really exciting to
hear a duet between Johnny and Alan Rickman, it’s just
totally
surreal. I mean,
who would ever think about that? So you know it sounds like Johnny and
it
sounds like Alan and that’s great. That’s what I
wanted.
DEPP:
And it’s also really cool, because the whole surreal nature
of it
is Alan
Rickman and I did a duet before we even met!
BURTON:
Hahahaha.
DEPP:
[laughing] We had done a song
together before we actually even shook hands. Honestly, how weird is
that?
Depp,
Bonham Carter and the rest laid down the soundtrack
before
filming started at Pinewood Studios and during each take when music was
required, the relevant song would be played on set.
BURTON:
Yeah, and that was an aspect of it that was really fun. It was like
making a
silent movie and having music on the set. It was fascinating for me to
watch
the actors and it felt like an old-fashioned movie—the music
affects movement.
It
actually helps the crew, galvanizes everything. I found it quite
liberating.
Some people might think, “Oh, you are restricted by
everything,” but it was
incredibly liberating and fun to watch, because you just move
differently when
you’re hearing music. I would consider doing it even if I
wasn’t making a
musical now, because it’s quite fascinating to watch.
DEPP:
Unfortunately yes, I did sing along with myself during takes. I
don’t know how
other people do it because I’ve never tried anything like
this in
my life. But
I felt like if I was just mouthing it, the camera would see it and
you’d be
faking it on some level and you wouldn’t be committed to what
you
were doing.
Basically, it was horrifically mortifying at times. You know, the poor
guy who
does the sticks and the focus-pullers who are, like five inches away
from your
head, and you’re belting it out. You just feel like a
complete
ass, but it’s
necessary . . .
BURTON:
But it’s really important. That was the brilliance of it.
Everybody got that.
The other actors did the same thing because you can see it in their
throat, see
it in their chest, that’s why it’s so important.
It’s
all about what’s inside
coming out. I mean, that’s what this musical is. We cut out a
lot
of the
Broadway-ish aspects of it, where the crowd is singing and that sort of
thing,
because it’s really about the characters and what’s
inside.
They are all kind
of repressed and it’s important that you see it—you
see his
throat and you feel
it coming out of the guy.
We
should, they say, be thinking of a classic horror story
with
songs, rather than your typical Hollywood musical. For those not
familiar with
the story, Benjamin Barker is fitted up and sent to Australia for a
crime he
didn’t commit. 
When
he gets back to old London Town, he’s understandably more
than a little pissed off about things and sets out to take revenge on
those
who’ve done him wrong. And then some.
As
Sweeney Todd, he’s a serial killer who dispatches his victims
with a cut-throat
razor as they sit, unsuspecting, in his barber’s chair. Once
dispatched, they
drop through a hatch and down into the basement where they provide the
ingredients for some tasty meat pies served up by his partner in crime,
Mrs.
Lovett. The story itself dates back to the mid-1800s and there are even
some
who claim, wrongly, that it was inspired by real events. Sondheim
himself has
given his blessing to Burton’s project but he’s had
no
direct input.
BURTON:
We haven’t added stuff but we’ve changed things. [from the musical] The whole thing for me
was to try to be
as true
to the spirit of it because I love it. I think it’s really,
really, good. But
as a movie you have to do certain things. I mean, even the way certain
songs
end in the Broadway show, they are designed to get that
“Ta-da!” You know,
“Okay, applause!” You don’t want that in
a movie.
There’s a really long song
after the intermission—you know, a standard Broadway kind of
thing—and we don’t
do that, so there’s trimming. Also, you’re looking
at
actors close up which you
don’t get the benefit of on stage. And I think that was the
biggest challenge,
to try to keep true to the spirit of it but make it a movie.
DEPP:
It’s odd, but there were things that you pulled out of the
film
that I was
never aware of until they clearly identified themselves as theatrical
devices.
Like literally, “This is a device of the play for this
reason,” and you would
suddenly see it in the context of cinema and go, “Jesus
Christ,
that’s so
unnecessary . . .”
BURTON:
So there are things that we took out and we haven’t shown it
to
the composer
yet so we’ll see what happens. But look, he’s a
really
smart, talented person,
and so far, he’s just been respectful of the process. Like
me, he
loved the
idea of Johnny but he had never heard him sing. He respects people to
get it,
so we’ll see what happens. [laughs]
But he’s only been positive and respectful. I think
he’s a
movie fan, so I
think he understands that there’s a difference between what
you
might do on
stage versus a movie, so we’ll see.
DEPP:
I read all that background stuff on the legend of Sweeney Todd and
there was
part of me that wants him to be a real guy. You know, you go,
“Yes, please let
him be real!” I’d really love that. But
it’s not the
case. 
And
basically, you
read all of that stuff so you can throw it all away, so you can be
aware of it
and toss it. Basically, the character came from conversations with Tim
. . .
BURTON:
It’s the old horror movie actors.
DEPP:
As Tim said, it’s a classic kind of story but these horror
movie
actors kept
coming to mind, these iconic kinds of figures, and that’s
where
he lives.
BURTON:
I think it’s one of my favorite characters Johnny’s
done
just because it’s so
internal. We kept cutting out lines of dialogue every day because,
again, it’s
like a silent movie, and that’s the great thing about
Johnny—he can convey
something without saying anything, and if you can convey something
without
saying it, that’s magic. You don’t know what the
guy is
thinking but you just
see turmoil and sadness and darkness and anger all under the surface
and it’s
great. He’s my favorite character.
DEPP:
You know, it was really interesting and challenging in parts, and there
was
something really fun about it. Like Tim said, we would go in there and
go, “You
know, he shouldn’t say this,” because the less he
says, the
better it is.
Because in life people have a tendency to talk just for the sake of
talking
because everyone is so fucking scared of silence. Just the idea of
silence
freaks them out. And certainly, in this case, you’ve got a
guy
who has been
virtually silent for years and it’s like, “Shit!
There’s something really weird
going on . . .”
BURTON:
See, for me that’s so
real life.
Like, it’s a fantasy, but it’s so rooted in a
certain
reality. It’s like a
fucked-up relationship. It’s like people don’t look
at each
other. If you’re in
a fucked-up relationship, you’re just quiet and people just
don’t look at each
other! [laughs]
DEPP:
You don’t look at each other? [laughs]
BURTON:
It’s like I ask you a question and you just go,
“What?” It’s perfect! It’s the
perfect relationship movie. Sweeney has come from our love of these old
horror
movies and trying to create an iconic character. You see Peter Lorre in
Mad Love (1935) or you see Boris
Karloff
or Lon Chaney, all those old classic monsters. It’s an image
and
we just felt
like that was what this character is about—you could see him
in a
wax museum
and that’s perfect, you know what I mean? It’s a
certain
look, a certain feel,
and it’s always exciting with Johnny doing it,
that’s
what’s great. He’s always
into that kind of stuff.
DEPP:
It was a real challenge on this one to find my guy because like Tim
said, he
needed to be iconic and you’re thinking of all these strong
images like Peter
Lorre in Mad Love, Karloff as
Frankenstein’s monster . . .
BURTON:
Simple. Just an old-fashioned, simple, strong image. And dark . . .
DEPP:
He’s misunderstood! [laughs]
BURTON:
It’s a tragic love story . . .
DEPP:
He’s actually horribly misunderstood because, really,
he’s
a very sweet guy . .
.
BURTON:
He’s a damaged individual . . .
DEPP:
He’s basically been dead since his life was taken away from
him
all those years
before . . .
BURTON:
He’s Dead Man Walking . . .
DEPP:
It’s the only reason he has continued breathing, to wreak
vengeance.
-- transcribed by Theresa